Is Islam really EEEEvul?

Bobbi and D.W. certainly don't like to think so, but I suspect that is more because of their own good nature and desire to get along than accuracy on their part. Og is certainly on the opposite side of that fence, as am I.

Though it shouldn't be necessary, the standard disclaimer applies: I am NOT advocating deportation, incarceration, persecution, muzzling, teasing, poking, pricking, or hair-pulling of any innocent Muslim person; I think this will all work out fine in the marketplace of ideas.

So in reply to D.W.'s request for reasons why I think that way, here it is:

First, some differences in worldview. In the Western Deistic tradition, the universe is a fairly mechanistic place. God created it, set up the rules of natural law, and rarely intervenes supernaturally. In Islam, literally everything is in'shallah (God's will). If a given Muslim is sophistcated enough to use the concept, they would probably explain that God decides the orbits of electrons on a moment-by-moment basis. Everything that happens is God's overt will.

Next, let's have some definitions. Lest you think I am getting all semantical on you, remember that Islam is a fundamentalist religion; the Quran is the literal, unalterable, direct, perfect, and most of all- FINAL word of God. The sacred nature of the Arabic text of the Quran imparts special significance to that version not found in any translation. As revelation, it is protected from imperfections by divine will. (This is not unique to Islam, some fundie Christian religions believe this about whatever version of the bible they use, too.)

So, Islam = submission to the will of God.

Accepting Islam means becoming abd'ullah, which is not just a common Muslim name, but literally means "Slave of God".

This is quite different from the submission to God's will that faith in Judaism or Christianity requires. The non-Islamic peopls of the book view God as a benevolent father-figure. God created us (let me speak from my experience growing up in the Christian context, even though I am not of that faith now) as children, because he was lonely, and wished to spread his love. Contrast this to Islam, which very clearly states that God created the Djin and mankind for the purpose of praising, worshiping and glorifying him. Mohammed the pedophile created god in his own image; the ultimate narcicist.

The Second pillar of Islam is salat- the duty to pray daily. The form of this prayer emphasizes that Muslims are slaves; it is performed with a full body abasement, groveling on one's face, prostrate on the ground.

Jews and Christians are not slaves of God. They are his children, owing a filiel piety, but meant to be companions to God. A man does not own his children; at some point children have the right to their own lives.

ani m'abd - I am not a slave

I will not be a slave. If for this I go to hell and I am punished, so be it. Accepting for a moment that all that is true, then with my immortal, undying soul I will rise up from the depths of hell, no matter how long it takes, and make war on Allah for attempting to enslave me.

I don't understand how people who can accept that communism is an evil doctrine, have to hem and haw about Islam not being evil, "it's just some misguided practitioners of false Islam". They are evil for pretty much the same reason- they make slaves of the individual. Under communism, in service of the state. In Islam, a slave to God. There is no difference between the evilness of one idea or the other. They are both ideologies, and calling one "religion" and the other "politics" makes no difference- especially in Islam, which allows for no seperation of secular and religious, religious and political. Islam is total submission to the will of God in all things. There is no "render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's" because it all belongs in the realm of religion. Even taxation is a religious duty, both for Muslims to give to charity, and for kaffir to be humbled and humiliated by acknowledging our inferiority by paying the jizya. And that's only for those of you who profess to be people of the book. For pagans like me, atheists, Hindus, Buddhist etc, the choice is convert or die.

I am not a slave.

{Edit to add} Christianity has had several major movements subjecting religion to examination by reason. In the end, it comes down to some assumptions and faith, but there is an acknowledgement that the way to discern God's will comes through reasoning upon the Word you were given, and extrapolating. The Jews had their bargains with God- literally negotiating with God. This implies some level of flexibility and accomodation, and if not equality, then at least some value. Buddhism seeks enlightenment, not necessarily through intellectual exercise, but certainly through introspection. The Hindus believe in sin, but keep bargains with their Gods, and their saints become the companions of Gods and are valued by them as exceptional individuals.

Only Islam subjects the individual to being of no worth other than the extent they are a fawning auidience to God.